“”Death is the end of all men!” Dalinar bellowed. “What is the measure of him once he is gone? The wealth he accumulated and left for his heirs to squabble over? The glory he obtained, only to be passed on to those who slew him? The lofty positions he held through happenstance?
No. We fight here because we understand. The end is the same. It is the path that separates men. When we taste that end, we will do so with our heads held high, eyes to the sun.”
And so we come to the end of Part Four of Brandon Sanderson’s novel, The Way of Kings. We are nearly at the end, only the denouement is left (though those of us who have read it know there are exciting things yet to be revealed therein). And whoa! What a breathtaking, breakneck-paced section of reading Part Four turned out to be. For anyone worried we might be left with a cliffhanger-filled, unsatisfying ending to the first volume of The Stormlight Archive, Sanderson knocked it out of the park. A grand slam. And we ain’t done yet!
Kailana had the enviable task of coming up with this week’s questions. Thank you Kailana!
My oft-repeated warnings must be brought to bear once again for those who follow after the jump: “Here there be Spoilers!”
1. One thing that I have thinking about during the course of this book is what Brandon Sanderson is trying to say about religion. Jasnah is an atheist. Shallan believes, but is still trying to find herself. Dalinar believes strongly in the ‘Old Ways’. What do you think of this idea?
Jasnah may be an athiest, though I still am not entirely convinced, but she is not an “unbeliever”. I believe that she knows there is something out there but that much of it has a different explanation than what the culture and religion of her ancestors have taught everyone to believe. I like that Shallan hasn’t become convinced that her beliefs are wrong, at least not yet, and that she is still just as anxious to study and to learn more. I think that makes her a much more interesting character and sets her up in some ways as a nice conscience for Jasnah.
I find myself being sympathetic to Jasnah, not because of her heretic views but because I have been suspicious all along of what might be trying to come back to this world from the past, suspicious of whether or not Dalinar’s visions will lead to something bad. However it turns out, I think Jasnah’s studies and what they will reveal will be VERY intriguing in the volume(s) to come.
I like what Sanderson has done with religion and culture in the book thus far, particularly as its ties to times long past gives Roshar a fantastic sense of history. I like that many of the cities have existed for a long time, that there are ancient ruins, that there are creatures that have perhaps died out that are now the stuff of legend. There are several stories that I consider favorites that have this in common: a long but largely forgotten history, with rumors and mythology and folklore related to those times. I see that in Tolkien, of course, and also in Robert E. Howard’s Hyboria. I find it exciting that Sanderson’s series has a similar foundation to it.
2. The relationship between siblings is an important part of this book. Adolin has always been at the forefront of Dalinar’s two sons, but Renarin is important, too. What did you think of the two brothers? Going back a generation, what do think of Dalinar and our glimpses of his brother? Then there is Kaladin who joins the war to protect his brother and fails. And Jasnah whose brother is King. Or Shallan who puts herself in a dangerous situation to help her brothers out following her fathers’ death. What do you think of these relationships? Did any stick out for you?
I hadn’t quite thought of it before but seeing your question makes me realize that there certainly are a lot of strong sibling threads to this story. It works for me on a number of levels. For one thing it makes for interesting interrelated plots while keeping the number of main characters to a manageable level. I haven’t needed a glossary or a family tree yet to remind me how everyone is related to one another. It also works because the dynamics of those relationships make it easier to bond with the characters and to understand where they are coming from. It also sets up some interesting parallels:
Kaladin had a “weaker” but intelligent and possibly skilled brother who he failed to protect. Adolin’s brother Renarin is from a similar mold except that Renarin has had a chance to grow up in a somewhat safer environment and now that he is older his gifts appear to be coming to light. I think Renarin has the potential of being a character of interest in future volumes.
I have expressed before that I had mixed feelings about Adolin. Sanderson had written him in such a way that I was unsure which path he would take. Would he be a character I liked or ended up despising. I had such a soft spot for Dalinar that I was loathe to see his son turn against him. Turns out Brandon Sanderson knew what he was doing (not really surprised about that). He slowly but surely brought Adolin to the forefront and made him a very interesting character. The scenes with him and his dad roaring into what might have been their last battle were a thrill to read. I felt the pride right along with Adolin as he saw the legend of his father in action.
3. Kaladin has been included in every section. Why do you think this was? Did you wish to have a break from him, or did you enjoy knowing he would be explored with every section?
No, definitely not tired of Kaladin at this point. There may be a number of reasons that he was featured so heavily. From a story telling standpoint I think his was one of the most compelling and needed to be told right up to the point where this part of his story ends. It would not have been as effective without that much focus on it.
Another reason for his prominence is that he is (or at least was) one of the few “everyman” characters in the book. He wasn’t a character having visions or born to nobility or practicing magic. He was the character readers could more easily relate to. His also was more of the straightforward quest storyline, albeit one that wasn’t quite conventional. His story ties together much of what is happening in Sanderson’s universe as well.
We were right there with him through the agony of becoming a bridgeman, through the ups and downs he went through in trying to rally the men around him, to try to give them purpose, to try to save them. And we were rewarded handsomely for taking the journey with him. That final bridge run, Sadeus’ betrayal, and Kaladin and his men deciding to be honorable men was so very thrilling. Had my wife not been asleep next to me I think I would have shouted many times during Kaladin’s and Dalinar’s final moments in Part Four. And after the dust settled I found myself very excited about what the future may hold for Kaladin and Dalinar.
4. One of my favourite characters in the book is Syl. What do you think of her and her development throughout the course of this book?
I like that she came from being just a small (no pun intended) character to being so very vital to Kaladin’s storyline and perhaps the bigger picture as a whole. I found her relationship with Kaladin to be vital not just to him as a character but to the story as a whole. She provided the impetus to keep Kaladin from being thoroughly self-absorbed and assured that any funks that he got into during the narrative would not last an interminably long time.
And as we learned more and more about Kaladin and his relationship to stormlight, and how Syl had a part in that and that her continued existence in this state was tied directly to Kaladin opening himself up to his destiny, she became an even more exciting character than she already was.
5. And, the big question, what do you think is going to happen in the last section? Any predictions?
As I already know I won’t answer this question directly, but I will talk about some of the revelations in Part Four to some of our questions/predictions/discussions of the three previous parts of the story.
One of the questions that had been brought up was why Dalinar couldn’t remember his wife. I loved how that was revealed to be because of Dalinar’s visit to the Nightwatcher. Though not much has yet been revealed about this entity, I think the idea of visiting and getting one boon and one curse is an interesting one to ponder. What desires, needs or circumstances would drive you to go ask for a boon? Even if you knew you would get exactly what you asked for, would you risk the curse? I’ve learned enough in this first book to know that Sanderson doesn’t waste words and I suspect we’ll see more of the Nightwatcher in future books.
Through Kaladin’s flashbacks we saw the death of Cenn and later Tien. With Cenn’s death and at other moments in the story we see dying men spout what appear to be unrelated observations. I suspect these are glimpses of something either from the afterlife or something from the past bleeding through. And these also appear to be what are being recorded and featured at the beginnings of chapters in Parts One and Four.
I love that we find out that Ehlokar’s paranoia about being assassinated has something to do with the fact that he sees people in mirrors that sound suspiciously like the creatures Shallan begins to see and put in her drawings. It is just fascinating how Sanderson pulls little and big details together.
I was so pleased that Dalinar finally gave in to his feelings about Navani and his confrontation with King Ehlokar was priceless. I was as shocked as Ehlokar when Dalinar strode into the room and started kicking the crap out of him. I had no clue what was up. And then when it turned out that he was just trying to prove his true loyalty and used that moment to get what he wanted–a chance to truly unite the high princes, it was again a moment to cheer. Loved his parting line about dating Ehlokar’s mother.
I mentioned to several of you that last Monday night I went on a late night binge and read through the entire book. Once Kaladin and Dalinar started down the road to what looked to be an enormous and momentous battle, I could not stop reading despite the fact that I was exhausted. I tore through Part Four, and since Part Five was so short I read through it as well. On one hand I wish these parts were combined for our discussion. On the other I am thrilled we will be talking about The Way of Kings for another few weeks as we wrap this group read up.
I could go on and on and on, but I’ll save more for the discussions ahead.
As always I encourage you to visit the sites of the other participants. You can find the links to their Part Four answers by going to the group read site.
I have to admit I wasn’t really thinking about the strong sibling connections until I was trying to think of questions and then it just popped into my head. I was originally just thinking about Adolin and Renarin and that lead me to think of Kaladin and his brother, and then things just went on from there.
All the same, well done. It was funny how the light bulb went on for me when I read your question.
I am really excited to see what Jasnah’s research will uncover. That may be the history nerd in me since I enjoy doing research and love to discover a key to the past.
I also think Renarin will play a larger role in the series. He’s slowly building him up and I can’t see him doing that and forgetting him. Sanderson is a talented author and I’m excited to see how the story develops over the years.
Oh man, Kaladin’s experience on the bridge run really demonstrated why Dalinar was opposed to using the men in such a fashion. Kaladin’s role throughout the novel has been pivotal to understand so much.
The part was so exciting!
I personally am not a big fan of research (or perhaps I’ve never spent significant time researching something I was passionate about), but I am a big fan of reading well written books about a subject someone else researched, or watching a well put together documentary. So on that level I am very interested in Jasnah’s research as well.
I agree with you, there is no way Renarin is going to remain a timid background character. If that was the case I think Sanderson would have disposed of him by now. I would like to see us, the readers, get a chance to see a male perhaps break through some of the taboos through the character of Renarin, whether because he becomes an ardent or if his skills just take him in that direction. He is obviously very interested in the fabrials and the engineering behind them.
Kaladin’s story did a lot of things for me, not the least of which is show how Sanderson could potentially structure the future volumes with one character in particular having a story line that plays through the novel and which all others either directly or indirectly wrap around.
That whole final battle with Dalinar and Kaladin and their stories intertwining was fabulous. My heart was pounding and I couldn’t read fast enough because I just HAD to know about how it would all turn out, especially after the conversations many of us had with Logan about whether or not Dalinar would die…
POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN’T READ PART FIVE!!!
…Now of course no one suggested he would die in this novel and he may still be one character that Sanderson finds a way to sacrifice at some point, but even with events that will unfold in Part Five I am holding on to my hope that Dalinar keeps on going because for me he has become one of the most interesting characters in the story, especially now that he has retaken control of his life.
Having read part five already, I still wanna see how much farther Sanderson takes Jasnah’s research. I like how Sanderson approaches the past from multiple angles–there’s Jasnah’s research, Dalinar’s visions, and even Syl’s little glimpses of memory to show the characters the past, meanwhile we know a tiny bit more from having read the prologue. It’s interesting to see how all of those glimpses of the past come together into a more unified whole.
I’m right there with you Grace. I think we are in for some amazing storytelling in the years to come. The way that Kaladin and Dalinar had their story threaded together gives me great expectations about how other threads of the story will be woven together over the course of this series.
I’m trying to decide of I should buy the hardcover of this now, knowing it will be a decade (or more?) until I read it, since I wait for the saga to be complete, or wait and buy a paperback set or something then if I’m still interested. Truthfully, I don’t even have shelf space for 10 big hardcovers (or thick paperbacks) so the books would just go right into a box until reading time. And I sure do have plenty to read already…
You might not have shelf space for just one of these, its HUGE!!! 😉 I think you would enjoy this book, it really is as good as the hype. But if you are going to wait until it is done anyway you probably are better off not burdening yourself with stuff that just has to be boxed up. And this hard cover is too lovely to go into a box anyway.
I have plenty to read too, which is why in the end I am not too stressed about the time it is going to take for this series to come to a conclusion.
Indeed, the fact that Elohkar sees things in the mirror (I think even the word symbol or glyph was used) really seems like he may have some powers like his sister. And given that Dalinar is apparently having some sort of power manifested (the Thrill(?), prophecy), it’ll be curious to see why this whole family has been “blessed.” (And also, what lies in store for Adolin and Renarin?)
I, too, loved how the Nightwatcher’s boon/curse affected Dalinar. We’ve not been explicitly told what his boon & curse were, and it begs the question as to which one is the removal of Shshs’s memories, the boon or the curse? Surely we’ll get more of this creature in latter volumes.
I’m curious about that too. I’m wondering if he asked to have his memories of her erased, or whether it was a different interpretation of what he really asked for, etc. Certainly something was going on with his late wife. He seems to cherish her memory (or rather, he cherishes the idea of her), but at the same time has no memory of her whatsoever.
It is hard telling, Logan/Grace. If his wife cheated on him somehow or broke his heart in some other way he could have actually asked that for his boon. His curse might be enough of the memory holding on to bother him that it is missing.
Elhokar was not the most interesting character until right up to that point. Now suddenly he may not be the spoiled child with paranoid delusions he appears to be but someone with actual powers, as you say, but with no prior guidance and nothing but fear manifesting in relation to these things awakening. If Dalinar and Navani (or maybe even Jasnah) can take him in hand who knows where his story could lead.
I am currently read it too. I am a little behind everyone else but I am enjoying it so far.
That is great. I hope you enjoy it as well. This group is pretty consistent in its unanimous love for the book. I hope you’ll come back and share some thoughts on it yourself as you are reading it and/or after you are finished.
Breathtaking is a great way to describe the last two parts of the book! I totally agree with you about Jasnah. I feel like she’s trying to put together a puzzle but just doesn’t have all the pieces yet. But it’s like she’s the only one who realizes that some of the pieces are missing.
The few things alluded to about the cities is such a teaser! I can’t wait to find out more about the history of Roshar, the dawncities, the landscapes, etc.
When Dalinar started kicking his nephew I was like “What is going on here?” But that was a great scene! I loved it. I’m so glad Sanderson didn’t draw out development of the relationship with Navani for too long. I was getting worried that it would take them a few books to get together, and that would have been too much like a soap opera.
There is certainly a lot more to Jasnah than I thought there was going to be as I read the story. She has become a character that I am anxious to learn more about.
The cities and the thing about names being similar forwards and backwards was really fascinating to me. Many of the names are really obvious if you think about it but I hadn’t noticed until Kabsal pointed it out.
That scene with Dalinar was fantastic wasn’t it? I was so shocked and then so pleased because it all worked out so well.
And I agree with you, I’m not big on soap opera drama so I’m happy this didn’t happen.
Question # 1:
I for one find it refreshing that Sanderson is discussing so many religious beliefs among the cultures of Roshar and at the same time I don’t believe he is trying to champion one over another. Religon is something I struggle with personally so I always welcome open discussions of religious beliefs. I suppose I would fall into Jasnah’s religious camp. I though believe in something but I just haven’t figured out quite what that is yet. Sanderson throws so many different ideas at you in WOK which makes it interesting. The thing I like best is even when the characters such as Dalinar are challenged with what they thought was the correct interpretation of something only to find out what they thought was fact was really something different these characters don’t just chuck all there beliefs away just because one thing doesn’t fit right.
One of the most impactful moments for me in the book happens when Navani paints the giant glyph symbolizing JUSTICE on the ground. That moment I found incredibly powerful. That is one part of the kind of relgion I believe while at the same time Kaladin’s and Dalinar’s struggles with killing is also powerful as well and how one reconcilies that with one’s beliefs.
Question # 2:
Wow. I totally didn’t think about all the siblings in the novel. Sanderson does seem to be sayign something about siblings and more so overall the subject of family in this novel. What I love about family and siblings is that no matter you can count on them to have your back when times get tough which we all know is what lifes like for our famalies and siblings in Sanderson’s world.
Question # 3:
I was glad to have Kaladin in every section he was my favorite character although Dalinar almost eclipsed him at the end. He was the one we could see the story through easiest as a reader I believe. He was the one we always routed for since he wasn’t one of the prvilaged light eyes.
Question # 4:
I love Syl especially when we find out how she has had so much of an effect on Kaladin. Now I still don’t why she picked him or if Sanderson revieled that then I missed it.
Question # 5:
Alas I couldn’t stop at the end of section 4. I had to read on and I finished the book so I will whave to skip this question as I already know the ending.
I had forgotten about that part with Navani, but that was a really powerful moment. I’m really liking her as a character. And I agree with you that it is nice that everyone isn’t abandoning what they believe just out of hand, although I guess Szeth is probably also holding on to his beliefs despite his problems with them and that annoys me with his character, LOL!
I’m glad I’m not the only one who didn’t notice all the obvious sibling connections.
I’m with you, Dalinar came on so strong in this section that he went from a character that I liked to one of my favorites in a few hundred pages. When he takes charge, he takes charged. And I loved how he proved to be honorable in the face of everything and how much that effected Kaladin. I know this is not a black and white series and that we will see struggles and crises of faith with these characters, but I do want to see some true heroes and it was nice to see glimmers of this with Dalinar and Kaladin.
I can’t recall if Sanderson mentions Syl sensing something in Kaladin, or his unconscious use of the stormlight drew her to him or if he hasn’t said at all. Either way we will certainly learn more about it in the books to come.
I’m glad you were able to make it through this book in the time frame allotted. Heck, early even. I know you didn’t think you could do it but am so glad you did. It will be fun talking about Part 5 on Monday and talking in general about the book as a whole. What an amazing experience. thanks for talking up Sanderson so that I was inspired to give this a try.
That scene with Dalinar at the end where he trades his Shardblade for all the bridgemen. Wow!! It made me tear up. I was so happy that Kaladin finally found someone he could believe in.
I’m glad you dug this Sanderson book so much as well. I’m also glad it lived up to the hype. I had only read one book of his before this one, Mistborn. That book was so much different than this one as well. I really dug it as well but it was a lot more standard fantasy afare were WOK was so Epic.
I still can’t believe we both finished this book in the alloted time frame.
Oops, initially thought you posted about something that was in Part 5.
Yes indeed, that was one amazing scene and really unexpected. I knew he would honor his word at that point but didn’t see how he was going to pull it off. Very well done by Sanderson.
It is great when a book like this lives up to or even exceeds (as it did for me) the hype.
I’m pretty shocked as well. I still look at the hard cover on my shelf and cannot believe I actually read it.
Agreed, Jeff. Dalinar actually giving away a Shardblade! Wow. That was completely unexpected and super powerful.
That reminds me, why does Syl not like the Shardblades? She says they feel wrong or something. And then I recall from the Prologue (and a few other times) there being Dawnshards, which sound different from the Shardblades. Interesting stuff, for sure.
As for Mistborn, did you read the trilogy or just the first book? The scope gets a little more “epic” by the end of the three books.
I didn’t see that coming in any way, Logan. I had no idea how Sanderson would handle that confrontation and was blown away by the way he executed it.
I wonder about the Shardblades too. Could it be that there is something inherently evil about the plate and the blades? Obviously she is reacting to something but this is one of those cases where I have no idea what that might be, not even a good guess.
I put the Mistborn trilogy on my Amazon wishlist thanks to The Way of Kings. I wish now I had read it a long time ago.
So far I have only read Book 1 of the Mistborn trilogy although I do own book 2. I hope to get to book 2 later this year or early next year. I need to digest WOK a little more before diving right back into another Sanderson book. I also own a copy of Eltranis which I want to read as well plus I have all his other books on my Amazon wishlist now which I don’t own.
In regards to my comment on Mistborn book 1. I really did like it but I felt it followed more of A Hero’s Journey storyline which many fantasy novels do. What Sanderson does with the story is great though in giving a fantasy setting a whole Ocean’s 11 feel to me. Plus I for one really liked the magic system he created. I started to see some similarities in the magic system in WOK with Mistborn in the lashing’s that were completed by Szeth. Lastly I also liked the romance angle so when we saw that develop with Dalinar and Navani it was nice for me to see. What can I say I’m a romantic softy. I’m glad the story line feels more epic by the end of the trilogy. That’s great to hear.
It’s funny you mention the Prologue because I went back and read it again after I finished the book. I’m very curious of what Syl is and what her past is. I hope Sanderson reveals more about her in the upcoming books.
I meant to go back and read the prologue and then forgot all about it. I need to do that now while everything is fresh in my mind. Maybe I’ll do it just before I complete my post for Part Five on Sunday.
I absolutely loved Mistborn. While it is a familiar Heroes Journey type tale, we also know from the get-go that the Hero failed, making for a provocative piece of fiction. I agree with your thoughts on the magic systems being related between the two.
Elantris was quite enjoyable as well, and I can see similarities from its world to WOK, too.
That’s cool to hear about Elantris. I love the cover of the book as well and have been dying to read it just because of the cover.
I read somewhere that perhaps Sanderson has created a shared world for all of his books. Since it sounds like you’ve read many of his books what do you think of that? or can you share any other insight on his books.
I also did like the aspect of the failed hero in Mistborn. I was also wondering if the creatures that Shallan see’s might be out of the world of Mistborn. Did that thought cross your mind?
You guys need to stop it. I don’t have the time right now to read the Mistborn trilogy. Stop tempting me Frodo!
LOL! OK OK…
I don’t have time either with a friend of mine starting some thing called the RIP challenge. 😉